Revised Opinion on Carl&Pete
Apr. 20th, 2008 06:50 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sub_dividedTHEY'RE CRAZY.
...Here's where the disinterested should start skimming. ^^; Look, if you need something else to read, you can read the review of CS Lewis' Screwtape Letters I wrote for![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
bibliophages. Okay?
Ahem. Where was I? Oh, right, Pete and Carl are crazy. Separately they are sane but together they are crazy. This was actually the first thing I thought about them, a week ago when I'd run through the mainstream media coverage (in which Pete is a drug addict and Carl is the "loyal" Libertine who kept the group's engagements after Pete flaked out to shoot heroin etc) and moved on to the things that didn't make it into the headlines, like Pete keeping a scrapbook full of magazine clippings of Carl, or Carl's obsession with large knives. But rather than stop there, I kept going (sorry these links are not representative -- they're actually the second layer of mainstream coverage, the offbeat interviews that made The Libertines famous) and, well. Twenty or so interviews in, their methods start to make a strange kind of sense, you've learned to decipher their weird accents (Pete made his up and Carl's slur is either a speech impediment or the result of about 15 years of sustained drug use, starting from age 10 or so), and you've started to think that maybe, under the trauma and delusions and co-dependence and drug addiction, there is a Plan.
It's a little bit addictive because you really want it to make sense -- the human mind is designed to make sense out of the incomprehensible -- and so, when you can't quite figure it out, the natural thing is to want to find out more until you can figure it out. Only, in this case, you are never going to find the final piece of the puzzle that will explain a band that never pulled itself together well enough to release some of their most compelling music. And even though you can draw a straight line from their respective unhappy childhoods to their present states of being (including, if you stretch it a bit, their mutual obsession), and think that it all makes perfect sense, you'll still never completely have a grip on whether they know what they're doing or whether it's all/mostly instinctual. Because the answer is BOTH and NEITHER: Carl and Pete are aware of what other people thinkwhen they are not totally out of their minds and sometimes even then, but their awareness is not like other people's awareness. (Their awarenesses, I should say.)
Sabina wanted a Primer, so here is a Primer. ^^; Though keep in mind, I've only been looking into this stuff for about a week (and most of what I've been looking at is years out of date). Anyway:
Music: The Libertines' first CD, Up the Bracket, came out while I was in high school. I had the CD and I absolutely loved it, which just goes to show that you can like the music without knowing anything about the band. Reviews of this CD typically say things like at first it sounds completely deranged and not very good, but after you hit "repeat" a few times it all starts to make sense, until you wind up believing that there's some kind of demented genius at work underneath it all, which is actually a very good metaphor for the way most people experience the band in general, if they bother at all.
The Libertine's second CD, The Libertines, is about them. (I feel compelled to point out that Pete and Carl were *not* childhood friends as depicted in the first video. They were, however, absolutely on the verge of breaking up when "Can't Stand Me Now" was recorded, and in fact did break up shortly afterward, in part for reasons discussed in that song.) By the way, there were two other people in the Libertines (John Hassall on bass, and Gary Powell on drums), but it was sort of understood from the beginning that the focus of the band was going to be Pete/Carl and that they would have to stay in the background. Speaking of:
Backgrounds: (Please forgive me if I oversimplify, but my understanding is that) Pete's father's father was an abusive alcoholic. His father had a wild childhood and ended up joining the military in an attempt to impose some kind of order on himself. I'm not sure what Pete's mother's story is, but I am sure that there is one. To say his parents were "strict" is putting it mildly. The family also moved around quite a bit. Pete's dream is to live in a world of complete personal freedom. He appears to have problems with self-restraint. At the same time, he is very charming, and makes friends quickly and easily.
Carl grew up half with his father (where he was the middle child of like, six children) and half with his mother, who tended to keep a lot of consciousness-expanding drugs around (so she probably wasn't paying a lot of attention to him either). He only really seems comfortable when either drunk or high or both, which may be why he's a serious alcoholic (like two bottles of whiskey a day alcoholic) and cokehead. At the same time his obvious good qualities (funny, smart, good-looking, talented) and equally obvious difficulty believing that he has them represents a killer combination that is very attractive.
Together: They believe in love and music. ^^; This seems to have been something they both felt strongly about prior to meeting each other but Pete was the one to articulate it. Their stories fit so neatly together (Pete looking for freedom, Carl living a life apparently free of boundaries; Carl feeling he couldn't connect to anyone, Pete skilled at forging a sense of instant connection; Pete wanting to change English music, Carl a talented musician; Carl feeling his life lacked direction or lacking confidence to pursue a dream, Pete consumed by dreams and completely believing in Carl's potential to reach them) that the collision seems nearly inevitable. You almost don't have to bring intense physical attraction into it at all; but as is frequently the case, their relationship makes so much more sense if you do.
...Another level to all this is the question of how much of their relationship was "genuine" as opposed to a ploy to sell CDs. Again the answer is probably BOTH and NEITHER -- of course it was a ploy, but at the same time...
Drugs: This is the part of the story I have the least experience with, understanding of, or interest in, so if you really want to know you should probably look somewhere else. From my perspective, drugs were not the cause of their problems but certainly contributed to them, especially insofar as being completely out of your mind a lot of the time tends to impede self-reflection and self-examination, which can result in certain situations being prolonged well past the point where any two sane people would have realized what was up and either committed or walked away. -_-; Like, Carl and Pete were together for *six years* before the unbearably-aware-of-each-other body language and hints-from-Pete-which-Carl-always-denied started; they were together for another *four years* teetering on the edge of collapse before they finally did collapse; and it's been *four years* since the band broke up and Carl stopped returning Pete's phone calls, and they are still writing songs about each other. (On the other hand, without the drugs, the band would almost certainly not have broken up when they did? They would have lasted a few more years. So there's that, as well.)
Media: After the band broke up, Pete Doherty dated supermodel Kate Moss and became an instant tabloid feature. Of course, he was also selling stories to the tabloids to fund his drug habits. -_-; This kind of self-publicity is a regular fixture of the Libertines -- though much like the guerrilla gigs the band (meaning Carl and Pete, the rhythm section being FAR too well in charge of themselves to bother) famously played to small audiences for some quick cash, this seems to have been mostly Pete's idea, with Carl going along either out loyalty or because Pete had somehow managed to convince everyone that these gigs were what the band was about. Or maybe for some other reason (love?), who knows.
With Pete especially, reading the press can be like looking into a mirror, darkly: a warped reflection of your own opinions looks back at you. This is because Pete not only collects magazine clippings about the band (see: exhibit A), but also reads posts on fan forums (see: exhibit B) and incorporates what he learns from them into the way he presents himself/the band. Carl, who is not as openly exhibitionistic and who claims not to know how to use the internet, is a much safer bet. Except that doesn't seem to realize that his body language gives him away: this man is the worst liar I have EVER SEEN. The press, for whatever reason, rarely calls him on it: maybe they've gotten it into their collective head that Pete is the liar and Carl is the one who tells the truth, or maybe they just figure that it's none of their business and that Carl should be allowed to lie if he wants to.
I feel like I should be hyperlinking more things in this post to show where these opinions are coming from, but I'm getting kind of exhausted. ^^; I may go back and add links later; in the meantime, here's a list of highlights compiled by![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
joliefolie.
Passover was great, by the way, although my uncle ran a "humanistic" Seder that emphasized the inspirational value of the flight from Egypt in terms of what it might mean to oppressed peoples everywhere, and I kind of liked the old, politically-incorrect Haggadah which was all about the Egyptians tried to kill us and God punished them, now let's eat. (Paraphrased from the NYT.)
...Here's where the disinterested should start skimming. ^^; Look, if you need something else to read, you can read the review of CS Lewis' Screwtape Letters I wrote for
bibliophages. Okay? Ahem. Where was I? Oh, right, Pete and Carl are crazy. Separately they are sane but together they are crazy. This was actually the first thing I thought about them, a week ago when I'd run through the mainstream media coverage (in which Pete is a drug addict and Carl is the "loyal" Libertine who kept the group's engagements after Pete flaked out to shoot heroin etc) and moved on to the things that didn't make it into the headlines, like Pete keeping a scrapbook full of magazine clippings of Carl, or Carl's obsession with large knives. But rather than stop there, I kept going (sorry these links are not representative -- they're actually the second layer of mainstream coverage, the offbeat interviews that made The Libertines famous) and, well. Twenty or so interviews in, their methods start to make a strange kind of sense, you've learned to decipher their weird accents (Pete made his up and Carl's slur is either a speech impediment or the result of about 15 years of sustained drug use, starting from age 10 or so), and you've started to think that maybe, under the trauma and delusions and co-dependence and drug addiction, there is a Plan.
It's a little bit addictive because you really want it to make sense -- the human mind is designed to make sense out of the incomprehensible -- and so, when you can't quite figure it out, the natural thing is to want to find out more until you can figure it out. Only, in this case, you are never going to find the final piece of the puzzle that will explain a band that never pulled itself together well enough to release some of their most compelling music. And even though you can draw a straight line from their respective unhappy childhoods to their present states of being (including, if you stretch it a bit, their mutual obsession), and think that it all makes perfect sense, you'll still never completely have a grip on whether they know what they're doing or whether it's all/mostly instinctual. Because the answer is BOTH and NEITHER: Carl and Pete are aware of what other people think
Sabina wanted a Primer, so here is a Primer. ^^; Though keep in mind, I've only been looking into this stuff for about a week (and most of what I've been looking at is years out of date). Anyway:
Music: The Libertines' first CD, Up the Bracket, came out while I was in high school. I had the CD and I absolutely loved it, which just goes to show that you can like the music without knowing anything about the band. Reviews of this CD typically say things like at first it sounds completely deranged and not very good, but after you hit "repeat" a few times it all starts to make sense, until you wind up believing that there's some kind of demented genius at work underneath it all, which is actually a very good metaphor for the way most people experience the band in general, if they bother at all.
The Libertine's second CD, The Libertines, is about them. (I feel compelled to point out that Pete and Carl were *not* childhood friends as depicted in the first video. They were, however, absolutely on the verge of breaking up when "Can't Stand Me Now" was recorded, and in fact did break up shortly afterward, in part for reasons discussed in that song.) By the way, there were two other people in the Libertines (John Hassall on bass, and Gary Powell on drums), but it was sort of understood from the beginning that the focus of the band was going to be Pete/Carl and that they would have to stay in the background. Speaking of:
Backgrounds: (Please forgive me if I oversimplify, but my understanding is that) Pete's father's father was an abusive alcoholic. His father had a wild childhood and ended up joining the military in an attempt to impose some kind of order on himself. I'm not sure what Pete's mother's story is, but I am sure that there is one. To say his parents were "strict" is putting it mildly. The family also moved around quite a bit. Pete's dream is to live in a world of complete personal freedom. He appears to have problems with self-restraint. At the same time, he is very charming, and makes friends quickly and easily.
Carl grew up half with his father (where he was the middle child of like, six children) and half with his mother, who tended to keep a lot of consciousness-expanding drugs around (so she probably wasn't paying a lot of attention to him either). He only really seems comfortable when either drunk or high or both, which may be why he's a serious alcoholic (like two bottles of whiskey a day alcoholic) and cokehead. At the same time his obvious good qualities (funny, smart, good-looking, talented) and equally obvious difficulty believing that he has them represents a killer combination that is very attractive.
Together: They believe in love and music. ^^; This seems to have been something they both felt strongly about prior to meeting each other but Pete was the one to articulate it. Their stories fit so neatly together (Pete looking for freedom, Carl living a life apparently free of boundaries; Carl feeling he couldn't connect to anyone, Pete skilled at forging a sense of instant connection; Pete wanting to change English music, Carl a talented musician; Carl feeling his life lacked direction or lacking confidence to pursue a dream, Pete consumed by dreams and completely believing in Carl's potential to reach them) that the collision seems nearly inevitable. You almost don't have to bring intense physical attraction into it at all; but as is frequently the case, their relationship makes so much more sense if you do.
...Another level to all this is the question of how much of their relationship was "genuine" as opposed to a ploy to sell CDs. Again the answer is probably BOTH and NEITHER -- of course it was a ploy, but at the same time...
Drugs: This is the part of the story I have the least experience with, understanding of, or interest in, so if you really want to know you should probably look somewhere else. From my perspective, drugs were not the cause of their problems but certainly contributed to them, especially insofar as being completely out of your mind a lot of the time tends to impede self-reflection and self-examination, which can result in certain situations being prolonged well past the point where any two sane people would have realized what was up and either committed or walked away. -_-; Like, Carl and Pete were together for *six years* before the unbearably-aware-of-each-other body language and hints-from-Pete-which-Carl-always-denied started; they were together for another *four years* teetering on the edge of collapse before they finally did collapse; and it's been *four years* since the band broke up and Carl stopped returning Pete's phone calls, and they are still writing songs about each other. (On the other hand, without the drugs, the band would almost certainly not have broken up when they did? They would have lasted a few more years. So there's that, as well.)
Media: After the band broke up, Pete Doherty dated supermodel Kate Moss and became an instant tabloid feature. Of course, he was also selling stories to the tabloids to fund his drug habits. -_-; This kind of self-publicity is a regular fixture of the Libertines -- though much like the guerrilla gigs the band (meaning Carl and Pete, the rhythm section being FAR too well in charge of themselves to bother) famously played to small audiences for some quick cash, this seems to have been mostly Pete's idea, with Carl going along either out loyalty or because Pete had somehow managed to convince everyone that these gigs were what the band was about. Or maybe for some other reason (love?), who knows.
With Pete especially, reading the press can be like looking into a mirror, darkly: a warped reflection of your own opinions looks back at you. This is because Pete not only collects magazine clippings about the band (see: exhibit A), but also reads posts on fan forums (see: exhibit B) and incorporates what he learns from them into the way he presents himself/the band. Carl, who is not as openly exhibitionistic and who claims not to know how to use the internet, is a much safer bet. Except that doesn't seem to realize that his body language gives him away: this man is the worst liar I have EVER SEEN. The press, for whatever reason, rarely calls him on it: maybe they've gotten it into their collective head that Pete is the liar and Carl is the one who tells the truth, or maybe they just figure that it's none of their business and that Carl should be allowed to lie if he wants to.
I feel like I should be hyperlinking more things in this post to show where these opinions are coming from, but I'm getting kind of exhausted. ^^; I may go back and add links later; in the meantime, here's a list of highlights compiled by
joliefolie. Passover was great, by the way, although my uncle ran a "humanistic" Seder that emphasized the inspirational value of the flight from Egypt in terms of what it might mean to oppressed peoples everywhere, and I kind of liked the old, politically-incorrect Haggadah which was all about the Egyptians tried to kill us and God punished them, now let's eat. (Paraphrased from the NYT.)