rare bit of politics
Nov. 5th, 2007 09:30 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sub_dividedKeith Olberman mentioned on Countdown tonight that while our soon-to-be-Attorney General and his detractors argue about whether or not there's enough public evidence in the present day to classify waterboarding as "torture," more than 100 years ago US soldiers were court-marshaled for using "the water torture" during the Spanish-American and Philippine-American Wars.
...I wrote that! In a letter a letter to Senator Kennedy on Friday. ^^; Well, I'm sure I wasn't the only one. In case you're curious, here are some excerpts from the testimony of Grover Flint during the Hearings into Affairs in the Philippine Islands (April-May 1902, 57th US Congress, 1st Session):
Q: I called you here because Mr. Herbert Welch informed the committee that you would be able to testify as to the cruelties practiced on the natives by our troops. Now, if you have any statement to make in regard to that the committee will hear it. -- A: I can only answer any specific question on that point. (...)
Q: Were you present on any occasion when the "water cure" or any other form of torture was inflicted upon the Filipinos? --A: Yes, sir. (...)
Q: Did the men subjected to this torture die? A: I never saw a man die. But I saw a man who I thought was going to die once, and I had indirect evidence that a man had died in another case (...)
A: A man is thrown down on his back and three or four men sit or stand on his arms and legs and hold him down, and either a gun barrel or a rifle barrel or a carbine barrel or a stick as big as a belaying pin -- that is, with an inch circumference...is simply thrust into his jaws and his jaws are thrust back...he is simply held down, and then water is poured into his face, down his throat and nose from a jar, and that is kept up until the man gives some sign of giving up or becomes unconscious, and when he becomes unconscious he is simply rolled aside and he is allowed to come to.
***
I used to have an electronic copy of this but I've lost it, sorry. The most telling thing is that during the entire examination, over and over again the Senators all refer to the water cure "or water torture" as torture straight-up, and are mainly concerned with whether it was effective or not and whether commissioned US officers oversaw the proceedings or not. The investigation into atrocities committed in the Philippines actually got a fair amount of press coverage during the summer or 1902; and then, apparently, it was forgotten. This (=Senate Doc. 331, Vol 3) was assigned reading for two classes.
And now back to frivolities.
...I wrote that! In a letter a letter to Senator Kennedy on Friday. ^^; Well, I'm sure I wasn't the only one. In case you're curious, here are some excerpts from the testimony of Grover Flint during the Hearings into Affairs in the Philippine Islands (April-May 1902, 57th US Congress, 1st Session):
Q: I called you here because Mr. Herbert Welch informed the committee that you would be able to testify as to the cruelties practiced on the natives by our troops. Now, if you have any statement to make in regard to that the committee will hear it. -- A: I can only answer any specific question on that point. (...)
Q: Were you present on any occasion when the "water cure" or any other form of torture was inflicted upon the Filipinos? --A: Yes, sir. (...)
Q: Did the men subjected to this torture die? A: I never saw a man die. But I saw a man who I thought was going to die once, and I had indirect evidence that a man had died in another case (...)
A: A man is thrown down on his back and three or four men sit or stand on his arms and legs and hold him down, and either a gun barrel or a rifle barrel or a carbine barrel or a stick as big as a belaying pin -- that is, with an inch circumference...is simply thrust into his jaws and his jaws are thrust back...he is simply held down, and then water is poured into his face, down his throat and nose from a jar, and that is kept up until the man gives some sign of giving up or becomes unconscious, and when he becomes unconscious he is simply rolled aside and he is allowed to come to.
***
I used to have an electronic copy of this but I've lost it, sorry. The most telling thing is that during the entire examination, over and over again the Senators all refer to the water cure "or water torture" as torture straight-up, and are mainly concerned with whether it was effective or not and whether commissioned US officers oversaw the proceedings or not. The investigation into atrocities committed in the Philippines actually got a fair amount of press coverage during the summer or 1902; and then, apparently, it was forgotten. This (=Senate Doc. 331, Vol 3) was assigned reading for two classes.
And now back to frivolities.