Avengers Assemble
May. 1st, 2012 05:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sub_dividedSuspect Joss Whedon & cowriter made the first half hour of this movie clunky ON PURPOSE so they could create the effect of all hell breaking loose/the pace getting faster and faster in the second half.
This movie is totally about conceptual team-ups and rivalries - Tony Stark’s out of control ego vs. Bruce Banner’s out of control anger! Thor’s unbeatable sword vs. Capt America’s unbreakable shield! Spy (Black Widow) vs. Spy (Hawkeye)! Etc. etc. Even apart from how much I love conceptual team-ups and rivalries, this is a really efficient way to quickly characterize a large cast. I APPROVE.
Under the cut, some (conceptual) spoilers and criticisms:
Like:
Iron Man vs. Capt America, but mainly due to actor chemistry? Although this becomes a thematic thing eventually, the way they immediately single each other out is kind of random, actually. I saw this movie with a friend and she called it an alpha male thing - makes sense as they are the two guys who give the orders on the ground. OTOH, without all those teaser trailers wherein the two of them are roommates I think I would have been, like, taken aback by the immediacy of this connection? XD. (What were those about, by the way? They’re not in the movie. Deleted scenes? Scenes from the next movie? Pure fanservice?)
Black Widow vs. Hawkeye - the “normal” people - again mainly due to actor chemistry, or in this case Jeremy Renner’s chemistry with powerful grounded women lol. (Thinking back to his Hurt Locker Oscar acceptance moment with Katheryn Bigelow.) He is interesting to look at even when he’s just standing around - actually when he has lines, his enunciation’s not the best. Still mad that Anthony Mackie from Hurt Locker - the black sniper guy - hasn’t gotten as much high-profile work, though. (Although this seems to be changing - did you know he is in Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter?)
Capt. America vs. Thor: just the one scene where Thor hits the capt’s shield and is repelled, honestly. Because I’m a logic puzzle nerd like that. :p Speaking of logic, though, Thor breaking out of the little room he was in - by throwing himself sideways as the room was plummeting toward the ground - actually shouldn’t have changed his impact with the ground. Because adding sideways momentum doesn’t take away the downward momentum. (I will stop now.)
Love:
Re: Tony Stark’s/Robert Downey Jr’s well-known “volatility and self-obsession” (this is a direct quote from the movie) - no comment - but I loved his antagonizing/bonding conversation with Bruce Banner/Hulk and that they drive off together at the end. BFFs 4ever?
Thor and Loki: Considering Thor is a King on his home planet, I wonder where he picked up his “the leader is the servant of the people” attitude. It’s almost like he is a president, or some other public figure who relies on public recognition to legitimize his standing (like an actor), or something. :p Anyway, this movie made me kind of want to see Thor, but I don’t think I could watch another superhero prequel movie without any surprises (e.g. the Captain America movie). People who have seen Thor, is it like that?
Black Widow and Loki: though her intelligence doesn’t stop Loki’s plan from working, but that’s not her fault. Actually what I REALLY liked was Black Widow in this movie, in general. She never actually uses sex appeal to seduce anyone: instead what she uses is her air of approachable friendliness and some men’s automatic assumption that she must be emotional and weak. Great feminist (and realist!) statement there. And that moment when the camera zooms in on her high heels, carried in one hand as she walks away from the fight she just won! Awesome.
Dislike:
Loki vs. Nick Fury: actually this was one scene that could have been handled FAR better, and used to send a message like the Black Widow/Loki scene. Because Loki is supposed to be this hurtful (because he has been hurt), manipulative person, right? It would have hurt more, and been more on point, if instead of saying that Nick Fury had never seen power until he saw Loki, he'd instead pointed out that Nick Fury is forever the servant of others who are in power, whereas he, Loki, is simply realizing his ambitions to lead. Because it is quite striking that the one black guy in the cast, unlike all the others, basically has his hands tied. (His bazooka moment notwithstanding.) It’s not like the scriptwriters even had to make an explicit statement here, but some acknowledgment of Nick Fury’s likely ambition and capability and the fact that he is constrained more than others, despite his higher official position, would have been nice. Such a wasted moment.
General comments:
Many other things could be said about the politics of this movie, but sticking to just interpersonal politics for now. Anyway, great handling of large cast, great pacing, fun movie. Much smarter than it needed to be! One of those things that is better if you know the actors outside their roles in the film. But it also stands on its own pretty well, I think.
Fight scenes were handled really well as long as you pretend that everyone has rubber skin. There was a lot of collateral damage but I think the movie avoided giving the impression that it’s okay for people to die on screen when they don’t have speaking lines - f’r instance the bus evacuation scene, the guy who was ejected from his plane but (of course) had a parachute, Black Widow’s gravity when she says “he killed 80 people in two days.” Of course, this being a superhero movie, you are still left with the impression that it’s good/right for some people to be more powerful than others and for normal rules to not apply to them; within those bounds, though, this movie is not too bad. (Oops I ended up discussing politics anyway.)
Please, please, though: no more 3D.
This movie is totally about conceptual team-ups and rivalries - Tony Stark’s out of control ego vs. Bruce Banner’s out of control anger! Thor’s unbeatable sword vs. Capt America’s unbreakable shield! Spy (Black Widow) vs. Spy (Hawkeye)! Etc. etc. Even apart from how much I love conceptual team-ups and rivalries, this is a really efficient way to quickly characterize a large cast. I APPROVE.
Under the cut, some (conceptual) spoilers and criticisms:
Like:
Iron Man vs. Capt America, but mainly due to actor chemistry? Although this becomes a thematic thing eventually, the way they immediately single each other out is kind of random, actually. I saw this movie with a friend and she called it an alpha male thing - makes sense as they are the two guys who give the orders on the ground. OTOH, without all those teaser trailers wherein the two of them are roommates I think I would have been, like, taken aback by the immediacy of this connection? XD. (What were those about, by the way? They’re not in the movie. Deleted scenes? Scenes from the next movie? Pure fanservice?)
Black Widow vs. Hawkeye - the “normal” people - again mainly due to actor chemistry, or in this case Jeremy Renner’s chemistry with powerful grounded women lol. (Thinking back to his Hurt Locker Oscar acceptance moment with Katheryn Bigelow.) He is interesting to look at even when he’s just standing around - actually when he has lines, his enunciation’s not the best. Still mad that Anthony Mackie from Hurt Locker - the black sniper guy - hasn’t gotten as much high-profile work, though. (Although this seems to be changing - did you know he is in Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter?)
Capt. America vs. Thor: just the one scene where Thor hits the capt’s shield and is repelled, honestly. Because I’m a logic puzzle nerd like that. :p Speaking of logic, though, Thor breaking out of the little room he was in - by throwing himself sideways as the room was plummeting toward the ground - actually shouldn’t have changed his impact with the ground. Because adding sideways momentum doesn’t take away the downward momentum. (I will stop now.)
Love:
Re: Tony Stark’s/Robert Downey Jr’s well-known “volatility and self-obsession” (this is a direct quote from the movie) - no comment - but I loved his antagonizing/bonding conversation with Bruce Banner/Hulk and that they drive off together at the end. BFFs 4ever?
Thor and Loki: Considering Thor is a King on his home planet, I wonder where he picked up his “the leader is the servant of the people” attitude. It’s almost like he is a president, or some other public figure who relies on public recognition to legitimize his standing (like an actor), or something. :p Anyway, this movie made me kind of want to see Thor, but I don’t think I could watch another superhero prequel movie without any surprises (e.g. the Captain America movie). People who have seen Thor, is it like that?
Black Widow and Loki: though her intelligence doesn’t stop Loki’s plan from working, but that’s not her fault. Actually what I REALLY liked was Black Widow in this movie, in general. She never actually uses sex appeal to seduce anyone: instead what she uses is her air of approachable friendliness and some men’s automatic assumption that she must be emotional and weak. Great feminist (and realist!) statement there. And that moment when the camera zooms in on her high heels, carried in one hand as she walks away from the fight she just won! Awesome.
Dislike:
Loki vs. Nick Fury: actually this was one scene that could have been handled FAR better, and used to send a message like the Black Widow/Loki scene. Because Loki is supposed to be this hurtful (because he has been hurt), manipulative person, right? It would have hurt more, and been more on point, if instead of saying that Nick Fury had never seen power until he saw Loki, he'd instead pointed out that Nick Fury is forever the servant of others who are in power, whereas he, Loki, is simply realizing his ambitions to lead. Because it is quite striking that the one black guy in the cast, unlike all the others, basically has his hands tied. (His bazooka moment notwithstanding.) It’s not like the scriptwriters even had to make an explicit statement here, but some acknowledgment of Nick Fury’s likely ambition and capability and the fact that he is constrained more than others, despite his higher official position, would have been nice. Such a wasted moment.
General comments:
Many other things could be said about the politics of this movie, but sticking to just interpersonal politics for now. Anyway, great handling of large cast, great pacing, fun movie. Much smarter than it needed to be! One of those things that is better if you know the actors outside their roles in the film. But it also stands on its own pretty well, I think.
Fight scenes were handled really well as long as you pretend that everyone has rubber skin. There was a lot of collateral damage but I think the movie avoided giving the impression that it’s okay for people to die on screen when they don’t have speaking lines - f’r instance the bus evacuation scene, the guy who was ejected from his plane but (of course) had a parachute, Black Widow’s gravity when she says “he killed 80 people in two days.” Of course, this being a superhero movie, you are still left with the impression that it’s good/right for some people to be more powerful than others and for normal rules to not apply to them; within those bounds, though, this movie is not too bad. (Oops I ended up discussing politics anyway.)
Please, please, though: no more 3D.
Re: minor edits
Date: 2012-05-06 10:59 pm (UTC)Also, it'd be pretty funny if the guy with the anger management issues was the only one who is not constantly coping with low-level rage directed at Tony Stark.
And yeah, Iron Man's eventual mirror sacrifice moment! Putting a picture of his girl up on his HUD and everything. This was actually so heavy-handed I don't know why I didn't pick up on it the first time around. Possibly because I was just caught up in the sheer hilarity of Tony Stark BLOWING UP A SPACESHIP BY PERSONALLY FLYING A NUKE THROUGH A WORMHOLE. Like, at the end he was clearly thinking, welp I am dead, but this is a pretty awesome death, and the view is lovely.
Captain America's shield is made out of "vibranium". I am not going to venture on what the specific comic book science is. XD;
Re: minor edits
Date: 2012-05-06 11:33 pm (UTC)Following up on what I said to Kara about kind of wanting to watch the Captain America movie (for real this time) only because of this review, I kinda want to see the Hulk movie only because of a line in this interview with Joss Whedon:
"(Reached for comment, [original Avengers screenwriter] Penn says he was a little disappointed by Whedon's decision to take over. "We could have collaborated more, but that was not his choice. He wanted to do it his way, and I respect that. I mean, it's not like on the Hulk, where I got replaced by the lead actor," he says, referring to Edward Norton's infamous decision to install himself as lead screenwriter on that film. "That was an unusual one. This was more normal.")"
I mean, lololol.
That was like his Independence Day moment! I can't remember, did he like blast Ozzy Osbourne or something? XD I think it's easy to miss things like this because there are so many things going on.
That reminds me of my only other complaint re: this movie, which is that "tesseract" is a really stupid name. It was a lot better when they just started calling it The Cube.
Re: minor edits
Date: 2012-05-07 02:41 am (UTC)I watched two hours worth of Iron Man extras, because I got the special edition DVD for $10. All the actors found very nice ways to say that they were mostly doing improv (I still can't figure out if the original script was really that bad, or if Jon Favreau just likes to shoot improv); there was literally only one clip in the making of where the dialogue/action was the same as what ended up in the movie. So part of the way these things just work now is that the directors and actors fine tune the script on-set, whereas it takes months and months to do the special effects and so all that has to be meticulously planned. It sort of explains why Black Widow is so much better in The Avengers, though.
I liked "tesseract"! It's one of my favourite words that I never get to use. XD And I think that thing Exists In Canon(tm) and is actually called that. But the three-dimensional representation of a tesseract is a cube, so...
edits again...
Date: 2012-05-08 03:46 am (UTC)It's kind of what you said before about RDJ having more leeway with a big budget script because it's not set in stone to begin with, right? Was that based on watching the extras?
Ok, maybe it had to be called that... but like you said, it's not a word you would ever actually use in conversation??? Even though I think it was probably a deliberate choice to wait the half an hour until RDJ comes on screen before loosening up the script and bringing in banter and stuff, I was still really happy when they stopped calling it that XD.
Have you seen this? Pentagon Quit The Avengers Because of Its ‘Unreality’. Because not having the USA be in charge of the scary international research/surveillance/military network with the FFX airship and nuclear bombs is not realistic, lol.
Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-08 06:45 am (UTC)That was based on interviews and industry blog gossip, but the extras bore that out to a degree I didn't expect - literally, you just see them film variants of stuff. With giant poster cue cards off to the side, just like RDJ described. XD;;
I don't so much think it's deliberate as they started with SHIELD, and the SHIELD characters are straight foils. I'll just write this in a proper post, though. XD
I gather the Pentagon just wants the chain of command to be properly portrayed? XD Like how Rhodey has a rank in the Air Force and all. I know Coulson said specifically that SHIELD wasn't DoD in Iron Man.
Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-08 07:03 pm (UTC)Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-08 07:18 pm (UTC)That really was a genius clip, though. It just so perfectly conveyed that state you're in when you sit down and are hit by A WAVE OF EXHAUSTION as your adrenalin ebbs and are 0.5 seconds away from faceplanting into your plate, but at the same time you are SO HUNGRY, and the food isn't even very good or anything.
Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-08 08:11 pm (UTC)Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-09 12:06 am (UTC)Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-09 07:00 pm (UTC)Sorry, I just keeping throwing these links at you XD.
Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-10 03:08 am (UTC)Re: edits again...
Date: 2012-05-13 04:39 pm (UTC)OTOH I have learned that the characters have a lot of history together in the comics so maybe this explains the focus on their connection (and offscreen too, in a "fiction bleeding into reality" kind of way).